Minutes:
The Trade Enforcement Manager stated that they were happy to address the points made at the last meeting and answer any questions.
In relation to the bag collections and refusal to collect in certain areas mentioned in the second paragraph of the minutes, this was regarding the many tyres that had to be removed from the area.
The Trade Enforcement Manager explained that it was not that the team did not want to collect but it was a not a statutory duty and there were also processes in place for collection that needed to be followed. However, the team wanted to support the volunteers and work with them. If the matter involved private land, there were processes in place for enforcement action and working with the landowner to ensure that the waste was cleared from the landowner’s site and the team did this very closely alongside Keep Wales Tidy.
It was explained that during COVID where it was realised that a lot of people spent a lot more time out litter picking, and the team adapted very quickly to help meet that as best as they could, given the limited resources that they had. Their priority had to be the frontline service, which was refuse collection, but they managed to get a process in place to support the volunteers.
The Trade Enforcement Manager acknowledged that it was perhaps difficult for volunteers to identify land types and the team could assist with that to help volunteers know whether it's something they can support or whether it should go onto contact with the landowner to make sure they were compliant.
The ditch previously mentioned was not Council owned as it was private and so if the council was collecting from private ditches, then this would be disposed of as municipal waste. With regards to disposing of tyres the team did not have a facility or a license on site to do those, so ultimately, it was the public then that pays for the disposal of the landowner’s tyres via the municipal waste stream of Newport City Council.
It was also discussed from the minutes of the previous meeting about bag collection and the Trade Enforcement Manager wanted to support this but remarked on 50 bags stacked on the corner of a 50 mile an hour road, which required the team to remove them, was not acceptable as traffic management would need to be used and this is very expensive as the team wanted to work safely.
It was mentioned that communication was key and if there was a large litter pick planned it was maybe best to inform the Council of this as well as Keep Wales Tidy, as it was important for volunteers to work safely.
The Marshfield representative stated that they had attended a Keep Wales Tidy session where they had learned that a new project Caru Cymru had started, promoting working with litter pickers and the local authorities. There also needed to be better communication from both sides.
Matthew from Keep Wales Tidy confirmed that the project was currently running now with an action plan of what they were trying to achieve focusing on Dog fouling, litter picking as well as continuing to support community groups.
The Marshfield representative stated that they helped the Marshfield Magpies and there was a lot of frustration on behalf of the litter pickers, and they want to see the bags gone and would encourage a partnership group between the Council’s waste team and Keep Wales Tidy.
The Trade Enforcement Manager stated that there was a service provided for the removal of fly tipping and if it was reported through the system there were 1.5 days for removal. It was stated that the volunteer collection should only be for litter, but the team ended up with gas bottles, tyres etc and this was not on Newport City Council land. The team needed to be transparent on where litter was sent, and the expense needed to be justified so there should be litter for collection only.
The Marshfield representative stated that the area needed to be clean which is what residents and communities wanted and so there was confusion sometimes as where litter should go.
The Trade Enforcement Manager agreed with this but also stipulated that were provisions and statutory provisions in place that were managed through either the environmental health team or the planning team to work with landowners on removing accumulations on their land and it was recognised that it was difficult for volunteers and the community to identify what was council land and what was not, but what was picked up had to be properly managed.
The Marshfield Representative agreed but stated that as it sometimes took a long time for the landowner to be identified and to find out who was responsible for removing the item, other fly tippers then throw other items in on top and it becomes an accumulation and it attracted rats etc.
The Trade Enforcement Manager agreed with this point but stated that they have seen an adult and a child pulling a fridge out not wearing a high vis vest on a 50-60 mile an hour road.
The Marshfield representative stated that it seemed unfair that the owner of the land had to remove the fly tipping and therefore it stayed there and a more joined up process was needed to work something out which could be done with Keep Wales Tidy.
The Trade Enforcement Manager agreed and stated that the council was working with Natural Resources Wales and was working with the drainage board to manage the reens.
The Marshfield representative stated that they worked with Pam Jordan who was very good and helpful and was able to use cameras to identify fly tippers.
The Trade Enforcement Manager stated that they work with Pam very closely but that she was from a different organisation-Fly Tipping Action Wales and to install a camera required a RIPA authorisation. If Newport City Council use a covert camera, then an application from the Magistrates court would have to be in place. However Fly Tipping Wales do not use these so can use a camera any time.
The Chair confirmed that this was a legal requirement in the legislation for any covert surveillance for Police and Local authorities as it must be deemed necessary and proportionate so as not to interfere with people’s human rights. The Chair also explained that Fly Tipping Wales were not bound by the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act like Police and local authorities were. Police and local authorities were legal enforcement agencies.
Matthew from Keep Wales Tidy stated that the Caru Cymru promoted group activities and trials and campaigns related to dog fouling, fly tipping etc such as the lighthouse road which might be a trial somewhere and then could be adopted. Adopt a Highway scheme was another one which was still being looked at in terms of the health and safety part of that so whether it would be a pavement or work on country roads safely. Bin infrastructure was also being looked at.
The Wentlooge Representative spoke in relation to tipping on private land and stated that they were on a national panel ran by Fly Tipping Action Wales which consisted of farmers, National Rail etc. It was stated that the feeling was that the waste came off the highway so why should landowners pay for waste that comes off the highway. It was felt that this should be addressed on a government scale because it was a national problem. The Wentlooge representative stated that they would keep other community councils informed of any news on this.
The Wentlooge representative also stated that they have had a look at the deeds of some properties where the waste had gone into the reens and the owners only own to the midpoint of the reen and did not own the entire reen. So, who would own the reen that was connected to the highway? This area also needed a proper survey with the groups involved in litter picking for the Peterstone area as the bulk of litter picking there was on the common. To keep this community clean then there was a duty to keep those areas clean.
The Trade Enforcement Officer stated that with the booking system in place now to book the community collections, and it was a large event anything over 10 bags, someone in the team would be more than happy to advise the community council on how to best pick litter safely in that area.
The Wentlooge representative agreed that fly tipping collections were very good and that they were on a clean-up recently and that they themselves were the only person in a high vis vest and there was no traffic management and Cardiff was willing to collect the waste. The problem was that if the 2 metres from the road was not cleaned then residents would ask why.
The Enforcement Officer stated that there were two issues: volunteer litter collections and collecting fly tipping.
The Wentlooge representative stated that there was a lot of waste being thrown into bushes etc and the people out there volunteering want to make a difference, so some guidance was needed to resolve the situation.
The Trade Enforcement Officer agreed that guidance and support was needed. However, if Newport Council was requested to take waste and any type of waste regardless of whoever's land it was on then this was not sustainable.
The Wentlooge representative stated that they did pull out of the reens to stop pollution and it was felt that it was needed to have a panel of NRW, NCC and Keep Wales Tidy to work together.
The Marshfield representative stated that they were sympathetic to the local authority but acknowledged the very hard work of volunteers and stated that the new booking system brought in during Covid worked very well and wanted to know whether there was an analysis of whether this worked in relation to fly tipping versus the incidents of fly tipping and whether there were any prosecutions that took place. They stated that they made a Freedom of Information request previously to find out the prosecutions and was amazed at the response received. Geoff also asked what number of prosecutions occurred in the last year.
· The Trade Enforcement Officer stated that between September 2020 and September 2021 there were 70 fixed penalty notices issued; 20 prosecutions at various stages for the last 12 months and 2 vehicles were seized. However, it does take time. There was no definitive answer in relation to whether fly tipping had increased or decreased as a result of the booking system, but this could be looked at for the next meeting.
The Marshfield representative reiterated that they felt that it was essential that a partnership was formed as there seemed to be a frustration and a misunderstanding and it could only benefit for all parties to work together.
The Trade Enforcement Officer agreed that they were very willing to support groups, but expectations must be managed, and the framework was already set up so contacting either Christine or Matt would be advised.
The Marshfield representative asked whether Christine or Matt could attend a meeting if there was a slot organised at the hall and volunteers could maybe speak face to face there which was agreed.
Matthew from Keep Wales Tidy agreed this would very beneficial and stated that an informal training session could be held where Fly Tipping Wales could be invited alongside community councils as well to identify problem areas.
The Wentlooge representative stated that they also do litter picking and a lot of the stuff thrown out was recyclable about 90% which was frustrating, and they explained that prior to covid they would separate out the recycling was separated and Wastesavers removed it.
White recycling bags were discussed, and the Trade Enforcement Manager confirmed to Julie the Wentlooge representative, that some recycling bags would be made available to her.
Matthew from Keep Wales Tidy also confirmed that litter equipment could be rented out from the hubs and that white recycling bags could also be picked up from these hubs.