Agenda item

Invitees:

-          Rhys Cornwall – Head of People and Business Change

-          Tracy McKim – Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager

-          Nicola Dance – Senior Policy and Partnership Officer

 

The Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager gave apologies for the Head of People and Business Change, and then gave a brief overview of the formation of the Regional Public Services Board (PSB), to help explain to the Committee what could entail for the Council as a result. The Officer referred to page 21 of the pack which states that the same has been received by all Local Authorities within Gwent, therefore deemed relevant for every scrutiny committee to have sight of this. The report took Members through the formation of the Regional Gwent Services Board and the Regional Public Services Board in every area in Newport, such as One Newport which was established by the Wellbeing Future Generations Act.

 

Members were advised that there has been discussion across Gwent and in the G10 Partnership, amongst all leads from the Gwent PSBs to acknowledge the work that Newport City Council does is in common with other areas, and the challenges that they all face are in common also. Therefore it has been deciphered whether they would be better working as one Public Service Board. The team’s main work has been producing a well-being assessment. The officer explained that they have one assessment for Newport with a Ward Assessment and one for the well-being plan for Gwent, as a regional body that will arrange a range of partnerships on a Gwent Level, the report outlines these with further detail.

 

The Officer informed Members that there has been lots of dialogue over a period of time about a Gwent Public Service Board and what that could mean for local partnerships, as they will no longer be covered by the act as a Public Services Board but both would support the regional body, but this can be moulded to what the council needs it to be. The changes to the council are something that the council has to take a view on especially with the well-being plan and well-being assessment as they legally form what the council is and what it does affect in terms of reference for the council and committee. The Partnership Committee came into action at the same time as the PSB, and looks at a range of partnerships including the PSB and within that remit, Community Safety.

 

The change that the Committee would see right away would be that they review and comment on the Well-being Plan. It was stressed that will still happen as it is scheduled into the programme and is an important activity for the council to undertake. The Committee would also have responsibility to call in any community safety items, so if there is something the Members may wish to bring forward in the future, they can.

 

As the new plan develops, it will be developed on the Gwent footprint with local scrutiny committees to scrutinise the regional plan and the regional assessment board. From this, there will still be the Newport scrutiny team but they would not be directly scrutinising the Gwent well-being plan. Instead of five plans, there would be one and the same for the five well-being plans, there would be one. Therefore, the council would be tasked with looking at different aspects and looking at engagement for a new plan.

 

For scrutiny, the officer then began to explain that it will be discussed what their role would be like for the future and what roles would they want to specifically look at for instance. Members were assured that it does not need to be  as community safety is covered by a different legislation, therefore the Members were assured that they are continuing to scrutinise the current local plan as the details have not been fully planned out as of yet.

 

The Policy Partnership and Involvement Manager and the Senior Policy and Partnership Officer opened up questioning from the Committee.

 

The Committee asked the following:

 

·         A Member noted that if another borough such as Caerphilly will be in the chair for two years, how would that affect Newport, and asked if the officer could explain how the board came to that decision.

 

The Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager replied explaining that Caerphilly are not in the chair but agreed to take the administration of the meetings for the first two years. There will be ten organisations who are members, so local authorities are best placed, members were reminded that Newport City Council is used to this type of committee. The officer mentioned that five local authorities to rotate the administration, therefore it has been set out that Caerphilly will do this first, mainly because we have taken on the work for G10.

 

The officer went on to state that there are nominations for Chair and Vice-Chair which could fall to a local authority, these nominations will be considered ahead of the first meeting. In terms how it will affect the council if they are not in the chair as such, because Newport would not be in the chair permanently. It was clarified to members that is the nature of each PSB, to discuss what is important, and the right things for Newport will be in the plan with the right activities needed padded with evidence for what Newport as a City needs. The representatives of the Local Authority body would be the Chief Executive and the Leader of the Council who will put forward the requirements of Newport very clearly within the meeting.

 

·         A Member of the Committee queried with regard to the Well-being Future Generations Act, which way could the Council make it better?

 

In response, the lead officer would like the committee to consider the common ground within the area of well-being and how it will help. The officer highlighted how there will be significant differences between Newport and the other areas within the Regional Partnership Board. Partly because it is urban and has a city status, with a more diverse population and higher rate of crime for instance which emphasizes its different challenges.

However, there will be common ground with other authorities in that respect with universal issues such as tackling climate change, making active travel more accessible.

 

Members were also advised that a lot of partners are regional partners anyway, such as South Wales Fire and Rescue and the Police. Therefore, the Council does have the ability to discuss things at higher levels with an advantage there by debating whether particular needs of Newport are enough. This is a matter for the Council and Partnership Team to continually review as work progresses.

 

·         A Member expressed their concern in the council making a big decision to go from a city basis to a regional basis in terms of a PSB.As the City is slightly different from others, the committee queried what has been perceived as a challenge going forward which could conflict with other areas? The Committee then asked what the nature of the partnerships would be going forward with the Well-being Plan. The committee asked for clarification on the situation with interventions, as from other scrutiny committees some local authorities do not come in and are at completely different stages.

 

The officer replied, suggesting that some of the interventions are about making the green spaces safer, which could be an issue for everyone to agree to, to an extent. Working with different communities to make them stronger and more resilient, is relevant to everybody in different contexts. The officer acknowledged the challenges, for instance, the Newport offer is their current intervention. The Leader is keen to discuss to the local Newport one to see how we can take forward local issues. The Newport offer outside of the well-being act is a bigger piece of work, as the bid for city culture could be a part of the Newport officer which the Leader is keen to discuss this.

 

Local partnerships will be discussing Newport’s role there, with sustainable local intervention, so it is likely that such areas will have common goals, with different interventions in different areas. This could be area based planning, which is important to any new well-being plan because the board must be able to vary the activity from area to area. The skill work is very varied but the regional officers are very skilled and puts the council in a stronger position as they have worked in lots of projects.

 

The lead officer stressed that they engage with a range of big regional partners, such as University of South Wales College, Gwent. So the council already has a very diverse membership which is important to maintain at a local body. For example, Newport Live is a very important partner, this emphasized to the committee how the strength of local partnership is important. As the council would not expect them in the regional and the regional footprint, they are a really important partner to us on a local level.

 

The Senior Policy and Partnership Officer stated that most partners perform perfectly well on a regional basis because we are working with regional partners is the new offer. With the Newport offer is what they want to take forward and focus on the local delivery partnership.

 

The committee was advised that the new offer does not completely depend on the effectiveness of the other interventions as they all feed into the Newport offer intervention. So it would be important to make sure that the work continues, even though it might be operating on a regional level.

 

Members were informed that the partnership team has stolen a bit of a margin in terms of the skills work, for example when organising events, by being focussed such as for the careers event that we organised for local schools and focussed on the digital sector that has constantly put schools first. This is important to mention as now the rest of the region will benefit because they also have access, so they will be continuing that kind of focus first, and then other areas benefit as a result.

 

·         Are there are any reservations the officers might have with effectively scrutinising at the regional level, as there will be a local level, a regional level, and a Cardiff City Level with the Cardiff City Deal? Members wanted to ascertain whether this would be too much scrutiny.

 

The Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager responded by explaining that there is almost certainly more that they can do to scrutinise better and be more effective. There are definitely new skills and a big culture change as the move into so much regional scrutiny is relatively new to the team. There are examples, and with the City Deal and the Corporate Joint Committee are the cases that come out of the Local Government Act and explained to the members that they will see more of that. This requires a different skill set, for instance, if you were a scrutiny body but not part of the team you stated within council with in the first place, then it would be different set up by looking out for the interest of Newport and scrutinising the importance of this.

 

Members were then informed that there would be some development and support needed for members for all of these changes to regional scrutiny on this one in particular. The Partnership Team have worked really hard on the Well-being Plan and that will continue to be scrutinised for the next two years. Alongside that, the new Well-being Plan will be developed, and the team will discuss with the Committee about what is going forward and what is not,  s partnerships and the committee have a bit of time for developing what that looks like.

 

It was then advised that there could be some advantages to Community Safety with the PSB, or it could be something that the Committee can take forward separately, perhaps locally. So there will be changes needed which could be more effective. Without this, there are alternatives, however there is a danger that there is not enough scrutiny on a regional level and that locally the Committee can only sometimes pick away at pieces of these partnerships and some of the reports that the committee will attend, might have too many scrutiny committees plus regional partnerships. It is important to consider if this is the most effective thing to do in challenging and pushing for the role of Newport in this.

 

The lead officer acknowledged that they have to think about what it will look like for the city and stressed that the important point is that it is not for the officer to defend whether it would be a good thing for the city.

 

Two points were clarified;

 

1.    The Regional Service Board was going to happen with or without Newport City Council. There might have been a consensus that is was a proposal and that Newport would not want to not be in a Regional PSB that everyone else was in.

 

2.    The Council can leave the Regional PSB. Although the Partnerships Team hope that this will bring about a positive change, the Council can de-merge from the regional Public Service Board if it does not work well for the city and its partners, but that would be a very brave move in the future to consider that.

 

·         The Committee queried if Newport will have a fair representation by all areas having the same number of representatives.

 

It was confirmed that with the PSB, there would be an equal amount of members sitting in. But with scrutiny, this has not been decided yet. That is something that the Committee can offer their opinion on this. To make sure that there is a fair representation is a very important point. For the PSB, it would be one officer and one Member per area, which is generally the most senior person in the organisation.

 

·         A Member noted the mention of Sustainable Travel. What steps are the Council going to take now with local travel in trying to remove the carbon footprint?

 

It was advised that sustainability and carbon are very complicated, what has come out of the Carbon Strategy is that Newport has its own requirement for a strategy to influence our partners. It affects the well-being of the future so it is under the Well-being Act.

Under Sustainable Active Transport, there is a great job to take forward a number of strategies, as with Active Travel. For instance, the Clear Air Day was brilliant with lots of partners showing key leaders and ministers on bikes. However one has to accept that if they want to effectively challenge and push forward for active transport, it is a regional challenge.

 

An example of this could be the rental bikes, it could be better if everyone in Gwent had the same type of bikes as either side of the borders of Gwent. Members were advised that they have taken it a long way for Newport, could this mean that the team could take it further for a region. It would be possible if they pull together and collaborated effectively.

If within the new Well-being Act, there would be a new requirement, such as creating more sustainable travel; there would be Gwent piece of work which would give Newport a task as a contribution to the piece of work and tasked with doing stuff locally. So it would be partly down to Newport in how much effort and work we put behind that.

 

·         A Member expressed concern how the city has got a lot of housing estates away from the inner city area and that Newport needs a good transport system. We need people who work in Newport to have a robust system. The ommittee queried that if they have this public service board, it could not be joined up together with the regional travel.

 

In response, the Senior Policy and Partnership Officer noted the committee’s comments and explained that in theory, the areas would all have surely the same aims. If they think about how they need people to be able to get from where they live to the hospital, for example, they don't want everyone to drive as that doesn't work. The Council fully appreciate the parking problems, whoever you are and wherever you work.

 

As all of those bodies do have that in common, it could perhaps will be rationalised.

Officers have seen some of this in other reports in other committees, and pointed out that they rationalise in the buildings that we work from, of working out of different buildings and so on. Perhaps there could be more sharing. There are opportunities in the region, but note that it is harder to line things up as the more parties you've got is harder to line things out. The opportunities are bigger, but the work to get to them is harder.

 

·         Members of the Committee asked the officers how the committee can challenge the partners to improve, especially at a regional level. Including, what would be different, for instance, could the council apply for better grants? In terms of aspirations, what does the regional board have in mind?  Members further asked from the final point discussed, what would happen if an area fails within the board? Would there be reprimands and where would be best for them to be held to account? As an additional query, a Member added what would be the best course of action if Newport City Council was not satisfied for what they signed up for?

 

The Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager replied to the committee, explaining where they can challenge is scrutiny, partly, because council is also a partner in this, so they could consider if there is a problem for the city through regional security. As the Council is a key partner invested in this, the officer recognised that the tricky part is that they do not have money flowing around for funding, because in partnerships it is all about people and resources, so the challenge is not direct to scrutiny.

 

So escalating that, and taking a stand by de-merging would be a brave move for the Council to do it alone to break away from a group or ten. Whereas if it did not work for all councils, then that would be easier. The Partnership Team would have to determine why it would not work for the city, but for everyone else. It could possibly be due to the fact that we are different from the other areas, but with many years running and they might not be able to just immediately come back out. The Council would back out for traction if they were not satisfied, so they can legally come back out of that agreement.

 

In terms of grants, the Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager stated that with their experience of working in Newport, the city tends to be just outside of the criteria. As the grant criteria is often aimed at other areas despite the fact that the city very much needs them. There could be the possibility that if the board goes regionally, they could go for more grants that could somehow across the region fit the area very well. It was reiterated to the Members that Newport City Council would still have the Council and the Regional Public Service Board as anyone can apply for it. When Newport continued to apply for grants, 70% of grants are funded by all different aspects.

 

With regard to the mention of aspirations, this is also similar, is it that Newport could be limited by their own borders. Perhaps the City’s aspirations would be bigger because we are with the big hitters across the whole of Gwent, thus we could consider whether that could open up more opportunities. If one area fails under the Regional PSB, it would be for the other areas to call that partner into account. For example, if the whole area appears to be failing then all would be in it. If Newport would fail, not just council but also its partners, then that would be poor for the Regional PSB not making it a priority. In all, the only area you harm is your own area if they do not pull their weight when not fully committed. Therefore the incentive is there to push hard, as it could be a success for their own area even if Gwent isn’t the Council’s area, it could be a good push for Newport in piece of works.

 

·         A Member asked to hear what may be granted across the board, whether Newport could feel disadvantaged to other partners. For instance, there are Parish Councils and Youth Councils. How could the committee and partnership team ensure that nobody is left out at regional and different levels?

 

The Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager confirmed that in terms of how Newport City Council are more efficient, with the ability to make very big decisions. This depends on the type of person and what authority one holds over such decisions. With regard to other regional partnerships whom have very significant budgets and are on a Gwent footprint. And the work that they do, if their work aligns to the regional partnerships then there could possibly be a discussion about the sharing of resources. This objective is contained within the report.  Even if there is not a budget, those priorities being aligned and duplication being reduced would release resources.

 

The other point mentioned by the Committee about very local individuals, communities and organisations is indeed a challenge that the partnership team must recognise within the region. In the officers’ view, the Well-being Plan must have the ability to do local work. It is understood that we have the national Well-being Plan. Members were reminded that the council has strong, resilient communities for instance based in Pill. Within that, they have particular pieces of work that have taken place in England, so the Committee is aware of the participatory budgeting work. If the Partnership Team do not see that in the new plan, that will be a big challenge. Partly because of the voices of very local people and organisations, but also partly because of the different needs.

 

In the local Newport One partnership, that is where a lot of very local organisations will be represented within the sector, such as the Youth Council. It would be important that if the impact is not flowing down, whenever the council sees a move to a regional partnership then there must be a concern of local voices being lost.

 

·         From this response, a Member commented on how there are lots of local areas and wondered how they could be combined in a way to make sure they are fed in. The Committee asked if this would need to be addressed by partners, otherwise such areas might not be able to be heard in the regional side of things.

 

The Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager appreciated this piece of feedback, and clarified that is not their area of expertise. There could be a certain size limit of community councils above which they have a right to be involved with the PSB and Well-being Plan. Within those organisations some may have more power and say than others. It was pointed out to Members that within Newport, there is the Community Council liaise where the representatives of Council in a third party sector, it could be discussed if there is a need for regional intervention there.

 

·         The Committee commented on how the partnership will review not what the partnerships are doing, but on how they review the partnership itself. For example, it could be done on a biannual or yearly basis perhaps to see weaknesses and strengths therefore could make the partnership stronger and be a forefront of the interventions.

 

The Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager took on board the committee’s suggestion, as they acknowledged that everyone focuses on the effectiveness on the delivery which is difficult in a public meeting. It was explained to members that they have a partnership development that owns an honest feedback process, it could provide a useful model to use for a new public body.

 

The Senior Policy and Partnership Officer explained that they have done a self-evaluation exercise every two to two and a half years which entail questionnaires out to members anonymously about the governance and if there are challenges in the PSBs for example, if the board needs development on. We held a session with Academy Wales about eighteen months ago, which was a healthy board workshop which covered the criteria for members on if they are a healthy board. This is a model that the new regional PSB could look at and would be very useful. It could be in the same way as current arrangements, the Chair of Scrutiny can attend as an observer, and this has been built into the regional scrutiny set up.

 

The Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager added to this by confirming that it is proposed but is developing at present and took note of the Committee’s feedback.

 

·         A Member of the Committee asked the officers that are there any other Public Service Boards using this Board get together, and if so, is it working?

 

The Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager clarified that the Public Service Boards are a Wales construct from the Well-being of Future Generations Act. It encourages regional working, further to this, Audit Wales has sat out a report that is set out in the report on how it is really important for regional bodies to work together. The Welsh Government are supportive of the formation of regional partnerships. It was the confirmed that at present, there is only one in Wales, which is not defective and has not demerged. It is the Cwm Taf Board, and understand its working as it has been set up for quite some time.

 

·         A Member commented on their reservations and asked what if the Committee and Partnership Team are not seeing all of the detail of the potential benefits and disadvantages of moving to a more regional basis.

 

The Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager directed the Committee to the formation of Regional PSB within the paperwork provided in pages 15-36, and the regional report for pages 21-36. This is the best summary that the Committee can get, it does focus rather on reasons to do it, as it is a proposal to do it. Although, it does also talk about how crucial it is to maintain local voices in order for effective regional scrutiny.

 

For what developments will be needed, in the report there is a summary version from what was mentioned at the start of the meeting. It is very detailed and even though those pages are not all detail as there are more details to follow. There are even another 6-7 pages on partnerships structures. As there are lots of pieces of work there and some of which will be reported back to the Members within scope of the Committee. From looking at the paperwork, there is a lot of detail and a lot of work has gone into the proposal.

 

·         Concern was raised that the Council could agree to the proposal and realise it was a bad decision and asked for reassurance on this.

 

The Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager clarified that it is not their place to make the case to do it as it is not the officer’s decision or proposal as the lead officer is not a member of the PSB. The point of the meeting and paperwork is to set out what could be the advantages, with lots of hurdles to get over. It is clear there are greater opportunities are there at a regional level and a lot of work to do to get into place.

The Leader and the Chief Executive will be the members of the board, as the council will be sending their strongest representatives to look out for Newport in that way.

Members were reassured that every tiny piece of work and assessment at every level is correct to ensure the interests of Newport are considered.

 

Members were reminded that as discussed earlier, the Ccouncil can de-merge but it is important to note that would be a big move and would have to be sure that we are not losing more by coming back out. The other question is, if it is going to happen, would Newport lose out by not being a part of it. That could be the greatest risk by not being a part of this partnership. The Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager stressed that their job was not to sell it to them but to map it out for the Committee.

 

·         The Committee queried if there would be anything expected from them in terms of political capital, would there be a conflict amongst the region? As elected members, they have their own power and more influence than certain partners.

 

In response, the Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager advised that if doing a stakeholder analysis, all members would be a key part of that, as they have been elected by the community. However the officer was unable to confirm for definite as it is all relatively new, but it is a key question, and making sure that members are fully informed and understand the partnerships.

 

As an elected member in any ward needs to know who is responsible for what. That there is a challenge at every level. Which comes back to the most senior officer and elected member, which takes a lot of work to communicate what the PSB does both publically and to both Members and Officers. Also it is important to consider how this would look like in future also.

 

·         The Committee requested if the partnership officers could keep the committee appraised as members of committee and if there is anything they can assist with/ read up on documents.

 

The Policy, Partnership and Involvement Manager agreed to this request.

 

·         A Member raised a question, asking if it would be possible to bring someone from another region and explain why they would like the Regional Public Services Board to happen.

 

Members were advised that this is something for the Partnership Team to consider, to think about how every area is concerned and how they believe they have their own special criteria, which is true. Statistically, Newport is more different than the others, for instance, transport issues, the port, the M4, more diverse population and by a big margin, an urban city.  It could be insightful whether someone else from another region could come to the committee or perhaps Newport could go to another region to another committee to discuss such matters.

 

·         Members queried if they could propose an independent body, perhaps from the WLGA to advise them, from a local authority basis but with dealings of working with Local Authorities across Wales?

 

In terms of the two sessions, to cover about technicalities and structures of what would work, how it could work for Newport and going forward the Lead Officer thanked the Committee for listening to the team and sent on the Head of People and Business Change’s apologies.

 

The Committee thanked the officers for their attendance.

 

Conclusions

 

The Committee noted the proposal to move to a Regional PSB as outlined in the report and wished to make the following comments to the officers:

 

-          The Committee wished to express their gratitude for the informal briefing that took place last month, as tonight’s meeting allowed them to discuss the impact for Newport and how things look for the Committee going forward. Members also wish to thank the officers for their attendance and expertise on the matter.

 

-          Members queried if a representative from the Welsh Local Government Association or a similar organisation could talk to the Committee about the move to a Regional PSB and wider.  Members also queried if someone from elsewhere in the partnership talk to the Committee about this?

 

-          The Committee were pleased to hear that an advantage of regional working could mean more access to funding and grant possibilities. It is hopeful that this will raise our aspirations for Newport.

 

-       Members hope to see a fair and equal representation on the make-up of the joint scrutiny committee.

 

-          Concern was raised about what if the model was not a good fit for Newport, but the Committee felt reassured that there is a legal option to come out of the regional partnership if the Council felt things were not working.

 

 

The Committee also wished to raise the following queries and concerns:

 

1.    How can we hear the voice of young people, for example, the Newport Youth Council? Also, how can Community Councils be better supported and represented?

 

2. How will this work take forward existing Well-being Plan priorities and interventions – and which ones are likely to feature?

 

3. Are there any examples of a regional PSB elsewhere, and has this worked?

 

4. How will the new partnership evaluate itself and ensure that it is effective?

 

5. How can the Committee and all Members continue to support and challenge the new model?

 

6. How do we ensure regional work relates to and is influenced by local people?

 

7. What happens if a partner is not performing, and what if the model is not working?